You got out of the church – have you managed to get the church out of you?

(Originally posted by OldAuditor on June 13, 2010 – comments are included)

We see new refugees from the church of scientology appearing every week and one for one, they are relieved and happy about their new freedom. Many notice a spiritual revival as soon as they are beyond the reach of the church.

Interestingly enough, months will go by and you will find many of these new independents are still dramatizing some of the attitudes they adopted in the Sea Org or as a loyal scientologist. They are happy to be independents, but they will occasionally reveal a cold intolerance of differing opinions. They act as though they are still trying to live up to a standard of behavior that brooks no opposing viewpoints or questioning of authority. They still carry the intolerance of the church with them.

The basis of this behavior is that they adopted a “Sea Org” identity in order to survive in the Sea Org and this Sea Org Identity overlaid and opposed their true identity for many years in some cases. The Sea Org identity was a “safe” identity because it reduced the chances of being punished. Even public have adopted a no-sympathy sea Org attitude in an effort to escape ethics handlings.

Duty came first, above family, above personal needs and interests and this identity could justifying committing overts in the name of the “greater good”.This allowed one to do the following: Abandon one’s children to go on mission. Abandon one’s spouse because she became pregnant. Abandon one’s responsibility as soon as one received orders to go on a mission. Accept degradation willingly to keep the peace.

This adopted identity is at odds with every survival instinct a normal human being has. Love for family, love for children, love of life in all its aspects is considered to be Dev-T or contrary to Command Intention. In the Sea Org or on staff, you are not an individual, you are a post name and nothing more. When they bust you, then you are nothing until they assign you to another post.

You can leave the church, but if you do not knowingly address the abberrated identity you were forced to wear, you will go through life apparently independent, but still displaying unsympathetic churchlike behavior. That abberrated identity can be handled by counseling or auditing so that you truly regain all of your pre-scientology abilities.

You can gain a full understanding of the magnitude of this behavior modification by watching a fascinating video posted on Leaving Scientology of a discussion between Larry Brennan, former WDC member of the Church of Scientology, Nancy Many, author of My Billion Year Contract, and Steve Hassan, author of Combating Cult Mind Control. This video link is:

If you have not watched this video, make it a point to watch it soon. It contains material about indoctrination into a cult that I have not seen elsewhere. Steve Hassan is a former Moonie and he makes the point that Reverend Moon and Ron Hubbard used the same behavior modification techniques to ensure unquestioning compliance to the leader’s orders.

This will give you a better understanding of how bright people like Heber Jentszch, Debbie Cook and countless others can allow themselves to be publicly degraded again and again without attempting to break away. Their adopted identity makes duty paramount and all other considerations like integrity, personal identity, love of family, etc, are subjugated to duty.

The Sea Org may seem to be an extreme case but public scientologists and staff have also allowed themselves to adopt a “scientologist identity” that questions nothing coming from the Church and refuses to look at abuses being committed before their very eyes. When told to disconnect, they march like obedient robots and delete old friends from their address books and Facebook. Hearing of a reported abuse they retort, “Where did you get THAT entheta?”

Now you are out of the church, have you considered that some parts of your “loyal scientologist” identity might be a hindrance to getting on with life? There are independent scientologists who can ease you through the difficult tasks of regaining your true identity so you can start living life as yourself.

Number of views:366


PlainOldThetan  on June 13th, 2010 Edit comment

David: Don’t forget the indoctrination and artificial personality overlays that get laid in at Scientology (WISE) companies populated largely by ex-Sea Orgites.

I spent years in such a place. It took me some time to realize I wasn’t being valued — or even paid fairly — for my technical expertise, but instead was a nameless faceless cog in “Engineering”.

When I objected to sending out a faulty product, I was harangued and harrassed into “resigning”. Why? If I resigned, they wouldn’t have to give me severance pay and unemployment insurance.

“Evil! PURE AND SIMPLE! By way of the Eighth Dimension!” — Buckaroo Banzai

Lise  on June 14th, 2010 Edit comment

Hi David, This post co-incided with something that happenend to me recently. I have been out of the church for 6 months now and have just experienced some of what your post says. I sent an email to Mary Jo Leavitt and thought I might paste some of it here.

Hello Mary Jo,

Its catch up time :) …….Things are going so well for me. I took your datum and applied it in full to myself and my own life stats are up. It was your words “we can now create and make our own decisions”…This had a profound effect on me and I became cause of my own life again, a huge chunk of cultic indoctrination left. It was weird actually. it kind of had a reaction that I felt but can’t describe in words it was as if something waved over me and I saw some unknown roboticness detach from me..Loved it….

I quit my job which I hated and got one that I love, I found myself so absorbed in leaving scn and obsessively surfing the net that I left no time for anyhting else and then I realixed MY GOD I’m not so sure I know how to live without the back of my mind saying “would the church approve” and basing my action on their approval. This was sooooo subtle yet so pervasive because factually I often did things that the church wouldn’t approve of and saying “stuff it..don’t care what they bloody think but I’ll be extra careful to not get caught”. So that control was still there somehow. I guess this is what Marty would describe as decompress and it feels so good.

Last week WISE had a week long conference where 130 people went. I knew a few that went and the power of getting back into the fold is amazing. A good friend of mine who knows David Miscavige beats his staff but shuts her eyes and puts her hands over her ears yet couldn’t disconnect from me and kept me on fb and the odd email, went to the convention and on her return deleted me from fb. It hurt me badly because she didn’t have the decency to write me, I got angry and showed every emotion on the tone scale and “nattered” heaps. It was fabulous and as that engram was running I had the wonderful cognitions that come with it. Just beautiful. I harbour no hatred for her now just pity. If she really did want to disconnect from me then she would have deleted my daughters as well but she didn’t. That says a lot in my books. I saw just how thought reformed she was which controls her and everyone else and it is that subtle background voice of “would the church approve”. That engram went into FULL restim at the WISE event and then played out in the PU. I also know that when she comes back to half reality her deletion will play heavily on her mind. Maybe that will be her wake up call and maybe not but either way it will add something to her eventual departure and we can reconnect once again. Until then..adios my friend…

Jack Airey  on June 14th, 2010 Edit comment


Loved this article. I’m very fortunate that I never immersed myself totally into the 3rd dynamic fabric called the Church of Scientology.

I was featured once on a video about my wins on the “BASICS” where I stated I was one of the top 10 dilettantes in the church. At the time I offered this up I was a bit embarrassed to be in the church for 40 years and done so little.

There was always from my POV to many outpoints. I love to read LRH and be in the chair. Some little voice told me to walk very slowly until the church gets their act together.

IMHO the church will never get their act together and as Mary Rathbun recently wrote on his blog, “The Church of Scientology is Dead” I also think (know) the majority of its followers are Dead Men Walking to use a Hollywood movie phrase.

Now that I have been out since October 2009 I am proud to say once again, I am a Scientology dilettante.

Your post has made me realize I need to validate my knowingness about doing the right thing when I went public as a whistle blower.

I’m very excited about the many auditing services of standard LRH being offered in the U.S. by various auditors like yourself. No SO and staff to constantly harrass you as your trying to go up the bridge.

No more boring events watching Mr. Ego speak 1000 words a minute and having to stand to clap at LRH’s picture while all along you know your are taking part in a big scale fraud. When the speech is over the Sea Org & IAS money vultures will descend on you for every penny you have


It is so great to be free from these theta traps and go down the road, my road to freedom.
David I would like to report there is NO CHURCH LEFT IN THIS BEING!!!

Centurion  on June 15th, 2010 Edit comment

You make some good points David. I wish I could pick up the phone and ask for the money they have of mine, and walk away. But, it just isnt that simple for me. However, I am truely out. I will never donate again, nor sit in a CoS auditing room. I hate being in this position, but unfortunately, the damage is deep and I am still working my way out of a large hole. When that hole is burried for good, I will make the move, and if my dear friends do not grant me the beingness of an independent, then unfortunately, I will have to move on and lose some good friends. Damn good, in fact.

I dont think the church will send PI’s and put up any roadblocks to complicate my life, but they will declare, and that is the rub. They screw with your friendships in contravention of LRH policy.

Your words are wise.


Another Layer  on June 16th, 2010 Edit comment

Hi David,

Great article—feels like a phone call from an old friend! We met briefly in the late ‘70s. More recently, I stumbled onto your previous blog (before Possibly Useful Advice), and thought, hmm … something going on here … must bookmark.

(Jack Airey, your post really helped me with this comment!)

My personal crucible has been an humble one. It does not begin to compare with Int Base atrocities, nor the gross outnesses introduced into technical lines. From where I stood as staff, and later as on-again off-again public, I saw Scientology’s fundamentals attacked within the Church, the insanity of ridiculously inflated, off-policy prices for training and processing, off-policy financing of buildings, all resulting in the destruction of public trust. (Until the mid-90’s, I did write up what I saw, but the big picture did not change.)

Then in August 2009, I received Geir’s Doubt formula which had been pasted into an e-mail from an anonymous sender. I just could not delete it, and I read the forbidden words! And I did not fall down dead. And I did see that I had abandoned my “inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others” (per The Creed of the Church of Scientology, by L. Ron Hubbard). And I got mad, and kept right on reading. I shook for days. I connected with ex-staff from way back when, and loved it! Still reading, and recently started posting. No out yet, but will be soon.

Since reading Geir, it has been a wonderful, steadily growing realization that it wasn’t “just me,” and that my perceptions (even if suppressed at the time) were true all along.

Thank you, David, for identifying so brilliantly, those nasty bubbles of “Church think.” Little bubbles, take that, and that, and that! Hah! Another lie bites the dust!

With all respect.

Dennis  on June 18th, 2010 Edit comment


Excellent article … I was going to write the same myself, but I see you have done it – Great!

I have seen this solid, cold identity which some manifest. I understand it and expected it from some ex-SO & Staff. A bit of auditing & communication will bring out that sparkling being in short order.

In the meantime, we need to temper that immediate reaction to a differing viewpoint. Being on the ‘outside’ necessitates communicating with all manner of people. That cold unrelenting stare will result in the kind of independency that is neither desirable nor will it gain one friends in the wider group – mankind.

There will come a point where focus on what was done to oneself will turn to looking at the effect one had on others(public). The general Scientology public regarded staff & SO very highly at one point – now it is one of disdain – especially the SO. Public trusted that the tech would be kept true, that honest people truly had rights, and that they could aspire to greater heights. When one realizes that they have been a party to leading the public down the garden path with GAT/Basics/’New’ OT levels, have been bilked out of hundred’s of millions for IAS/Ideal Orgs/Super Power, etc, … and the list goes on, it will be a sobering moment.

ARC, KRC, a few good sessions and camaraderie will help to pull these guys out of this valence so they too can win.

Renegade  on June 21st, 2010 Edit comment

Thank You David! I was debating whether to watch the video or not.

After I watched it, I got Steven Hassans book and read it! I CANNOT BELIEVE that the same tactics that were used on the Moonies was/IS STILL being used by Scn!!! It blew me away!!!

It was so VITAL reading for me! So much grief, confusion, betrayal, guilt, wrong indications, are GONE! I feel released from my psychological PRISON. It has taken me years to get here!

Thank you again!

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